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Thursday, 9 September 2010        

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Citizens are being misled
Published 18/09/2009 Location: Victoria Sunraysia Daily Visit the origional article

THE 20 signatories to this piece are among the 2600 professionals who are calling for an end to fluoridation worldwide ( www.FluorideAlert.org )

We would like to respond to a letter signed by Dr John Carnie, Chief Health Officer, Department of Human Services, Victoria, and others. ( Experts back fluoride , Sunraysia Daily, Wednesday, September 2).

In Dr Carnie’s letter, we see very familiar tactics. Instead of marshaling scientific evidence to support their case, they rely on endorsements and tame reviews by bodies that sadly toe the government’s line on fluoridation.

Dr Carnie’s notion of ‘consulting’ with the community is to mail everyone a one-sided brochure.

His agency finds it easier to answer its own questions than those of its opponents. Here are eight questions we challenge Dr Carnie to answer.

1) Why is the level of fluoride so low in mothers milk (0.004 ppm)?

2) Is Dr Carnie not concerned that a bottle-fed baby in a fluoridated community will get 250 times more fluoride than nature intended?

3) Why does Dr Carnie ignore the World Health Organization’s (WHO) advice that before fluoridation is begun an estimate be made of the total fluoride dose children are already receiving?

4) How can Dr Carnie maintain that fluoridation is ‘safe’ when no randomized clinical trials have been performed to demonstrate the safety (or effectiveness) of ingesting fluoride

5) How can Dr Carnie claim that no one has been harmed by fluoridation when virtually no health studies have been conducted in fluoridated communities in Australia?

6) Why has there been no response in 18 years to two recommendations made in 1991 by the NHMRC: a) that fluoride bone levels be monitored and b) that the numerous reports of people claiming to be sensitive to fluoride be investigated in a scientific manner?

7) How can Dr Carnie explain that, according to WHO data, there is practically no difference in tooth decay in 12-year olds, between fluoridated and non-fluoridated countries ( http://www.FluorideAlert.org/who-dmft.htm )?

8) Why does Dr Carnie continue to perpetuate the elementary confusion between concentration and dose of fluoride? While engineers can control the concentration of the fluoride added to the water supply no one can control the dose people get each day. This will depend on how much water they drink and how much fluoride they get from other sources.

(DONWLOAD origional News Paper scan 700kb)

Photo: DR Paul Connett, executive director of the Fluoride Action Network

DR Paul Connett, PhD (above) has researched the fluoride issue for 13 years and is currently the executive director of the Fluoride Action Network ( www.FluorideAlert.org ). He has given presentations on the dangers of fluoridation to legislative bodies and/or research associations in Australia, Canada, China, Germany, Ireland, Israel, the Isle of Man, Japan, New Zealand, the UK, and the US. Dr Connett appears on the video Professional Perspectives on Fluoridation accessible at www.FluorideAlert.org


We see Dr Carnie exploit this confusion when he claims that IQ studies done in China dealt with “children’s exposure in ‘high fluoride areas’ where fluoride levels are substantially higher than the levels used in Australia.”

This is not correct.

In one of 23 studies published on this matter (see http://www.FluorideAlert.org/brain ) the authors found a 5-10 point IQ difference in children between a village with fluoride levels in well-water below 0.7 ppm and another village with well-water between 2.5 and 4.5 ppm.

The authors estimated that IQ would begin to be lowered at 1.9 ppm.

A child drinking two liters of water at 1 ppm would get a higher dose of fluoride than a child drinking one liter at 1.9 ppm, thus it is preposterous to claim that this study is irrelevant to Australia.

There is no adequate margin of safety to protect Australian children from this.

Not only may children be put at risk drinking fluoridated water, fluoride toxicity was experienced by adult patients of a practitioner signing this article (Robertson) after Melbourne was fluoridated over thirty years ago and documented in several other fluoridated countries (see the book Fluoride Fatigue authored by another signer, Spittle).

Side effects from fluoridated water have similarly been occurring to Geelong people after their water was recently fluoridated.

Dr Carnie has been made aware of this situation but has done nothing about it.

In 2006, the US National Research Council published a 507-page review entitled Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Review of EPA’s Standards .

The NRC authors, including three of those signing this article concluded that fluoride exposure was associated with damage to teeth, bone, the brain, the endocrine system and might also cause bone cancer.

The panel recommended that the US drinking water standard for fluoride (4 ppm) be lowered.

After 3 years the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has not done this.

However, former EPA risk assessment expert Dr Robert Carton, has concluded that there is no adequate margin of safety between the doses found to cause harm reported in the NRC review and the doses some people receive in fluoridated communities (Carton, 2006).

The NHMRC (2007) authors exploit the same “confusion between concentration and dose” when they cavalierly dismissed the NRC’s findings in one sentence:

“The NAS report refers to the adverse health effects from fluoride at 2-4 mg/L, the reader is alerted to the fact that fluoridation of Australia’s drinking water occurs in the range of 0.6 to 1.1. mg/L.”

To claim that the findings of the NRC review are irrelevant to Australia is irresponsible. The NRC panel provides an exposure analysis that makes it clear that some people living in artificially fluoridated communities (at the same levels used in Australia) are likely to be exceeding the EPA’s reference dose for injury from fluoride (RfD) of 0.06 mg/kg bodyweight per day. These include bottle-fed babies.

A 4 kg infant that drinks 1 liter of fluoridated tap water formula per day receives a dose of 0.25 mg/kg/day or over four times higher than the EPA’s reference dose for injury.

Dr Carnie is wrong to assert that the American Dental Association’s advice to parents not to use artificially fluoridated water (to make up baby formula) was restricted to water containing high natural levels of fluoride. The ADA advice states:

“If using a product that needs to be reconstituted, parents or caregivers should consider using water that has no or low levels of fluoride.” ( http://www.fluoridealert.org/scher/ada.egram-2006.pdf )

For some inexplicable reason Dr Carnie and other fluoridation promoters appear more intent on protecting this outdated practice than protecting the health of the Australian people.

He and his colleagues can only get away with this because they have the power and prestige of their respective organizations. But opinions on this issue which are unsupported by scientific data cannot be taken seriously. Hopefully, citizens in Mildura, and throughout Australia will have the fortitude to challenge Dr Carnie and other fluoridation promoters to defend the practice scientifically or abandon it forthwith.

Meanwhile, we marvel that Dr Carnie is prepared to force this measure on communities without a vote being taken.

This would be unacceptable even if the proponents had presented sound scientific evidence for both its effectiveness and safety, but having done neither, their arrogance is breathtaking.


THE 20 signatories to this piece

Albert W. Burgstahler, PhD, co-author Fluoridation the Great Dilemma (1978)

Paul Connett, PhD, director, Fluoride Action Network, USA

Doug Everingham, MD, former Australian Minister of Health

Andrew Harms, BDS, former President, Australian Dental Association (SA branch)

J. William Hirzy, PhD, former research scientist at the US Environmental Protection Agency

Professor C V Howard, MB, ChB, PhD, FRCPath, past President of the International Society of Doctors for the Environment, Northern Ireland

Robert Isaacson, PhD, panel member for the National Research Council report (NRC, 2006), USA

David Kennedy, DDS, past President of the International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology, USA

Hardy Limeback, DDS, PhD, past President of the Canadian Association for Dental Research and panel member for the National Research Council report,Canada

David McRae BSc, co-ordinator, Barwon Freedom from Fluoridation, Geelong

H. S. Micklem, D. Phil, retired immunologist, Edinburgh, Scotland

Bill Osmunson DDS, MPH, Aesthetic Dentistry, USA

Gilles Parent, ND.A , Co-author of La fluoration: autopsie d'une error scientifique (2005), Canada

Philip Robertson, BHSc, ND, Carmoora Clinic, Geelong

John Ryan, MBBS, MSc, FRACGP, DCH, FAMAC, FACNEM, FICAN, Brisbane

Jean Ryan, BHSc, Brisbane

Bruce Spittle, MB, ChB, DPM, FRANZCP, Author of Fluoride Fatigue (2008)

Daniel G. Stockin, MPH, senior Operations Officer, Lillie Center, USA

Kathleen M. Thiessen, PhD, panel member for the National Research Council report, USA


Article Response
Article Views  644 Views
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DisAgree       0 Disagree
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View Point - Article Summary by Ged Johnson 21/09/2009

This article puts forward the real questions that need answering. In response to a previous article published by Sunraysia Daily, Dr Paul Connett from Fluoride Action Network confronts Dr John Carnie (Chief Health Officer) about the real questions.


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Comments Posted Select a page Comments Page is 1

AgreeMichaelB (Monday, 21 September 2009 )
Its amazing what greed can do to a man. We see through your properganda Mr Carnie.

NeutralWill Hof (Monday, 21 September 2009 )
It is clear that Australia needs to withdraw from the UN and the unelected officials at the WHO office in Sydney together with the bilding itself needs to be closed down.
Where all this shameozzle comes from is from an advice from mr.Holdren who wrote the book in the 70 ies named Ecoscience (google it)

NeutralSandra Camm (Monday, 21 September 2009 )
At last an Australian Newspaper with integrity has dared to print a balance on an issue. Should I say Dr. Carnie s comment seems now to be out of balance with the International factual information. Wake up Australia, some of you are being fooled with spin, rise above this and ask questions for our future generations.

AgreePricilla Wright (Monday, 21 September 2009 )
Dr Carnie, why were you missing when difficult questions needed to be answered? where is the fluoride sourced that has been added to our water supply? who will be responsible if there are health issues in the future? why are we experiencing skin irritations since these chemicals have been added? who are we beholding to that we feel obliged to add these extra chemicals?
None of these questions have been answered satisfactorily.Congratulations Sunraysia Daily for addressing the important questions.

NeutralJeff (Wednesday, 23 September 2009 )
Mr Carnie, why not give the people the truth before they wake up to this Fluoride scam?

Youre playing with peoples lives. Come clean and the people will respect you. If keep going down this road, in the end, you will have nothing.

NeutralA.F.A.M. (Thursday, 24 September 2009 )
Mildura Rural City Council and its residents have vowed to fight the Bracks Government to the bitter end over the proposal to site a toxic waste dump at Hattah. That was the Mildura Council s announcement in 2004. In 2007, the Victorian Government was defeated, at a cost of $2 million to the community. Hopefully the Mildura people realise early enough that their fluoridation plant will be just another form (covert) of toxic waste dump, and that the same government can once again be defeated! At least with the overt dump, they were not going to be forced to drink its contents.

Vote not verified by user email yet | Previously AgreeAnton (Wednesday, 30 September 2009 )
We apreciate this Dr Paul Connett!

NeutralMark (Saturday, 7 November 2009 )
I went through the Geelong Advertiser articles about this debate and in Newscorp. style the editor trumpeted the official line about finally saving children s teeth and Dr Carnie s viewpoints were passed along to readers unchallenged, and in addition a rant from the Victorian premier comparing the anti-fluoridation lobby to with-hunters.

The anti-fluoridation lobby was mentioned but only the fact that they were meeting with the water authority.

With the mainstream media consolidated the government can basically do whatever they want by making it sound reasonable and ignoring any opposing viewpoints. People a**ume that the media is independant and will safeguard the public interest and unless they happen to come across the right articles or videos on the internet will never know the amount of information that they deliberately choose not to bring to light

NeutralAnna L Michalik (Sunday, 22 November 2009 )
I am not surprised that people are boycotting paying their water rates. On 12th November 2009 at a meeting in Moama NSW,the NSW Health representative Dr .Shanti Sivaneswaran made the statement, “aren’t we fortunate that all capital cities are fluoridated in Australia and we can experience this wonderful concept of experiment.”
Can t wait for a royal commission on artificial water fluoridation experiment.
Hear it for yourself at www.fluoridefreemurray.org

NeutralAFAM (Tuesday, 24 November 2009 )
Professor Roger D. Masters has also challenged Dr. Carnie. (Fluoride Free Murray . Org , letters, Mildura)

Vote not verified by user email yet | Previously AgreePricilla Wright (Tuesday, 24 November 2009 )
I have just received a propaganda booklet today from the Vic Gov.in response to my objections regarding so called!! positive reasons! why I should accept their decision to fluoridate the water that I am paying for, without consultation! with dubious health benefit! for myself and extended family,sorry! I will do my best to convince them to remember the authorities who treat them like mushrooms at the next election! We pay your wages !! talk to us !! system

Vote not verified by user email yet | Previously AgreePricilla Wright (Tuesday, 24 November 2009 )
Thank you Dr Paul Connett, I have just received a propaganda booklet,from the Vic. Gov.in reply to my objection to the addition of fluoride to my water supply, telling me I should accept their decision, because they know what is required for me and my extended family,the addition of a substance with dubious benefit, because they know best!! I am sick of being treated like a mushroom by this government! I will endeavour to encourage eveyone else who has had enough, to make their feelings known at the next election.

NeutralAFAM (Tuesday, 24 November 2009 )
Re: Mark (Saturday, 7 November 2009 )
Hey Mark, you can send anything to Letters to the Editor, Sunraysia Daily; it won t be censored or blocked. Word limit 300, but sometimes they go over this. Email news @ sunraysiadaily. com . au with your full details.

NeutralAFAM (Tuesday, 24 November 2009 )
We ll give Carnie until the end of November to respond, then we will switch from demanding a response, to demanding his resignation.

AgreeDave Evans (Wednesday, 25 November 2009 )
Fluoridation is a disgusting excuse for Health Care in this country. I cannot fathom how any sensible, educated human being can be convinced that drinking a poison, whether in small amounts or by the bucketload, can help one s teeth.

The simplest test of all, get a non human creature and place them in front of two bowls of water. One bowl will have water straight from the tap (Fluoridated) and the other fresh mountain spring water.. watch which one the animal prefers.

Neutralgary oraniuk (Friday, 27 November 2009 )
Our health should be in our own hands.

Governments are there to act in times of epidemic, etc., and have no mandate to mass-medicate, and have, indeed, signed treaties to that effect.

If we cannot be consulted on what we ingest with our water -and most of us only water: straight- then perhaps one means of protest may be to not pay the water bill.

Gary Oraniuk
Geelong, Victoria

NeutralWill H. (Friday, 27 November 2009 )
Dave Evans made a good point, I have done an exercise a couple of years ago ,by planting carrot&lettuce seeds together per tray, in three lots.One watered with Tap,second with rainwater,third with spring water. Amazing result!
As was expected, the spring water won then the rain water and the result of Tap water was two sprouts of lettuce and three of carrot out of 20+20 seeds per tray.

NeutralBRandom (Friday, 4 December 2009 )
Thanks Will, no wonder my herb garden won t grow. I have heard of people doing a test with there pets, seeing which bowl they prefer. Probably best you don t to the goldfish experiment. :)

Is there any website with the likes of best practices on organic gardening with regards to what water to use?

NeutralCindy (Friday, 4 December 2009 )
Dr. Carnie, do the right thing for the people of Victoria and Australia, resign and admit your lack of knowledge in respect to this heinous act of sterilisation by mandatory fluoridation.

AgreeWill H. (Friday, 4 December 2009 )
BRandom: Type in Google: Mittleider gardening and it should get you in this group. (or this is their address: MittleiderMethodGardening@yahoogroups.com)

AgreeWill H. (Friday, 4 December 2009 )
Just received one of Lisa Neville MP canned reply, almost identical from the health department a couple of years ago when I wrote to the Yarra valley water people who referred me to them.They don t seem to care to do the research!

NeutralSandra Camm (Sunday, 6 December 2009 )
Is anyone aware of which city John Carnie received his doctorate, is it medical doctor,dental doctor,doctor of mathematics, doctor of diseases?
If diseases, he needs a swift kick out of here; because he would know the damage he is doing to us.
Minister Daniel Andrews,(Health), Minister Tim Holding (water)you are a disgrace to this State and need also to be sacked for placing such important decisions with one man who obviously lacks the knowledge or his ego refuses to allow him to listen or debate or even answer the questions put before him. RESIGN JOHN CARNIE, you do not deserve your position of trust. Premier Brumby you are lacking in integrity in not allowing Victorians to make their own decisions on such an important staple -our precious water supplies. Labor, your days are numbered, your reign is at its end, your dictatorial ways are not welcomed.

Vote not verified by user email yet | Previously AgreeJeff (Wednesday, 9 December 2009 )
Dr Carnie said the process was unnecessary and unreliable, given the decision had already been made.We don t believe that these sorts of referendums are of any use. (Warrnambool,2007)

UNBELIEVABLE...SPELLS... DIC TAT OR SHIP

NeutralAFAM (Wednesday, 9 December 2009 )
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
- Declaration of Independence, USA

AgreeD. Fitzpatrick (Sunday, 15 August 2010 )
Even though there is a lot of publicity about at the moment on this subject I find it strange that I have not heard any reference to it from either Abbot or Gillard. It is obvious that Carnie is making the most he can out of all this whilst he can still hold onto his position and not have to answer any difficult questions but it would not surprise me if an investigation into this man`s history revealed that he is not a real Doctor but a clever Con man.
Actually he should be treated in the same fashion as a Terrorist would be if caught poisoning our Water Supply. I would be willing to bet that he only drinks bottled water himself.

NeutralSandra Camm (Wednesday, 18 August 2010 )
Yesterday I received a phone call from my Federal MP for Corangamite. He asked me if I had any issues, I suggested fluoride (mass medication) was the big one. He told me he had not been approached on that issue `probably because I am a Federal Member`. I told him there would be thousands of votes may come their way if they considered fluoride as one of their platforms. Too late for Saturday. Since then I have been rung on a couple of occasions surveying who I was going to vote for. Honestly I still don`t know. Maybe we should all write anti-fluoride in pen across the ballot papers. Would that have any affect on these politicians?

 
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